eyeOS 2.0 presentations. Hey, what happens with the dates?

UPDATE: Dear all,

Please calm down. There is no conspiracy with IBM nor Telefonica to hide anything to anyone. eyeOS 2.0 code will be published as usual, not copyrighted from IBM nor Telefonica. Telefonica is the biggest ISP in Spain and we presented eyeOS 2.0 together. We love that you want eyeOS 2.0 released as much as we want… But patience today means better product tomorrow.

As a result of your requests (which have been a bit rude sometimes) we’ll be opening eyeOS 2.0 code in an SVN this week.
Thanks


As we already explained some weeks ago, we have been presenting this week eyeOS 2.0 in Barcelona and we’ll be presenting it in Madrid on monday. A new video of 2.0 will be published after Madrid’s presentation.

About the release date, we know you deserve an explanation.

On our first internal release we invited some people to test it out. The result was that eyeOS 2.0 rocked, but it missed a lot of feedback for the user on some actions. It was not clear and the user could get lost during the eyeOS 2 usage.

We realized that we needed to fix this before the release to not disappoint eyeOS users with the new release. eyeOS 1 has been known for its great design and usability, and 2.0 must be as good as 1, with some new exciting features. If we fail on this, we fail on everything.

This is the reason we delayed the final date. eyeOS 2.0 exists, and some of you are testing actively lots of functionalities. And we thank you a lot for this.

We understand that some of you would prefer an Open Development, and we’ll be opening everything soon. This is quite important for us (more than one year of work) and we want it to be perfect. This is why we ask you for some little more patience. Having the support from all of you is the best to work motivated. It has always motivated us.

With the first beta release (once all feedback problems have been fixed) everything will be opened, included the development of the final release. And we’re working really hard to get this.

Thanks for understanding us.

96 Responses to “eyeOS 2.0 presentations. Hey, what happens with the dates?”

  1. Silencer says:

    @devs
    Thanx for your last update that you give svn access this week. But do you guys actually listen to us? Why do you still update old blog posts instead of writing new ones? Even reading here it can be easily overseen (with RSS is will).

    @alex
    Yes eyeOS is free, but so is my spare time testing 1.x/2.x, reporting bugs, making suggestions, introducing it to friends/customers etc. A lot of us here are with eyeos some time, but we never had a reason to speak out (so) loudly.

    @lust
    You are right for most of your points. But actually you made the same mistake as the eyeOS dev team yourself: you talked to your clients/customers about something that is not there yet and you made promises you cannot stick to.

    So let’s learn this lesson about raising expectations and insane release schedules.

  2. Jdev says:

    It has been more than TWO WEEKS since the promised launch date. I honestly think that they guys leading this project have absolutely NO knowledge about a little something called a “beta”. A beta does not have to be perfect. The purpose of a beta is allow more widespread testing of bugs so it does not have to be internally tested very slowly. A beta can also be used show that a product actually exists and to give first impressions. Now I know that apple almost never releases betas, but they don’t try to generate hype without any actual interactions and ideas to feed to people. The way the eyeos team is doing this is in my opinion the worst way to operate a release cycle

  3. You people need to calm down. Earlier today, eyeOS Tweeted that they would open up the SVN repository for all you little, anxious kitties so you can grab the unstable source code, run it, then complain that it doesn’t work.

  4. FSX says:

    Unlike another project that I know of, eyeos has not violated its own license yet. Also, that project took 3 months longer to put out a release then they said that they would.

    And you know what?

    There was virtually no complaining about the first point, and very little about the second. Nothing to this degree. No conspiracy theories.

  5. Lust says:

    WOW, code of 2.0 branch goes to public…

    I hope that:
    - it is not another joke (not sure what is better source – blog posts or tweets?)
    - my sarcasm was not too rude.

    Guys (eyeOS team), if you will really open this branch this week, all my bad feelings and fears of your silence will be gone in eye blink. Thank you.

  6. Alex says:

    @Lust

    I find your attitude … disgusting. YOU clearly made a mistake promising eyeOS 2.0 to your “clients” even before you could be sure it will be ready. YOU planned to make money using this free piece of software. YOU never did nothing for the community and YOU were one of the most virulent and complaining person on this serie of comments.

    And now that you realize that you have been WRONG on all your points, you still keep your ironical tone and are not able to even say a word of EXCUSE.

    Come on guy, how old are you ??? Do you know what “shame” means ?

    PS: This is my own personal opinion about this person and I take full responsibility of it but, seriously, this kind of unashamed people, making money with the free work of others, not being able to assume their own mistakes and complaining because they believe they “deserve” to have everything right here right now…they have no place in an open source community.

  7. Lust says:

    @Alex

    You are mistaken in few things, let me enlight them first.

    I was not promising eyeOS to our clients, but I created 4 weeks long window for learning its brand new approach and api by our developers (2 of them were supposed to be dedicated to this task only) and there is wave of panic across of our team, because there is (was) no word from eyeOS team _when_ we could think we will be able to re-schedule our plans. Our panic is not coming from some financial loose – but from BIG hole in our team calendar we can’t cover easily.

    I am not making money on it. Our clients knows qooxdoo-based user interfaces, we introduced them to eyeOS, they like it – BUT we have our own web apps with php backend we are NOT going to port/rewrite into eyeOS apps – our clients asked us to provide also connector for eyeOS 2.0, because THEY made some plans in their minds after WE introduced to them eyeOS and its blog. Our work to connect our CakePHP apps with qx ui nicely into eyeOS is not going to be invoiced in money, but opensourced under license I like more then other ones (no flames, I’m ok with rights of other code authors).

    Do not say I never did nothing for the community. I am 40 years old, programmer since my childhood, active developer or member of other open source projects, and you have absolutely no idea how much time, effort and money I invested into them. And – I consider 1st thing I did for the eyeOS community as quite valuable (pushing in comments/forums so 2.0 code is opened in this stage/situation), so if you want to judge me, wait a bit more, please. Our developers are smart persons and we will not hide our bugfixes, don’t worry.

    Do not get overexcited that I have been proven wrong on all my points unless you’re going to enlist them one by another. I disagree on this, but not going to argue with you, that’s not what I am here for. Yes, I know what shame is. Shame is, for example, hide in front of people willing to help you, when you have a problem. That was first thing I wanted, and I still do want it: to help. But I can not help myself nor eyeOS project if I can’t see The Code. Thanks to God, this week, I will be able to see it. Should I feel safe and sure? Maybe. Do I? Absolutely not. Why? Because it is hard to _believe_ it is actually truth and not just another promise, after these 3 weeks, you know… Sorry – I am not in love with someone from eyeOS world so I don’t have to cry in private.

    It is allways funny when someone screams about this argument “YOU are making money on FREE work and COMPLAIN” – SO WHAT, are YOU kidding? When me as an author decide to give code to public, I do not require others to keep silent when I do something wrong. And Public Relations is definitely buggiest or even missing (yet) part of eyeOS. If that hurts you, I am sorry – go back and read comments from 1.1. and you’ll feel the panic. Then go and read other blogs and related comments after. I wrote comments just below this one topic.

    Lets go celebrate all together for public access to 2.0 branch – and shake hands of eyeOS team. Well, let’s wait with this shaking for svn access. Not because I am afraid it will have bug here and there, that’s ok. Because I am still unsure if it is (or not) another PR teen-age pre-ejaculation announcement.

    PS: My intence is not offend anyone. If something sounds like poison, it is either mistake or sarcasm, supposed to help shake someone’s brain.

  8. Edouard says:

    This discussion is really crazy.
    Your are free to use an other Open Source Web OS if you can’t wait and mesure the hudge work this kind of project needs.
    Your are free to ask your developpers to create their own API too, next they will know it perfectly well…

  9. fractured says:

    ” is (or not) another PR teen-age pre-ejaculation announcement.”

    Nice. I like honesty.

    Honestly, it does not matter. Either way people on the board are probally going to FORK the release and do things a bit different.

    A public development course is the only way this code will get the maturity it needs to become a true powerhouse.

    I hope eyeos team makes a development change from now on to stop forking it.

  10. fractured says:

    API? Well you said it right. “mesure the hudge work this kind of project needs.”

    This work need alot of engineering hours. The only issue regarding this work is man hours. The more men the better the acocmplishment. I think the theme here in all the replies is =

    Eyeos team says they have a lot of work.
    Eyeos team says it is a lot of work.

    The community is saying let us help…not just test. But build and let the source speak for itself!

    The eyeos team seems worried they want to control or have to control the project on the source side. When in fact they will by including good and deleting bad code from the community.

    Very simple. Fight like married couple with too many kids!

  11. fractured says:

    wheres the beef!

  12. vullunfestuc says:

    There is a popular phrase in catalan that says: “meat today, hungry tomorrow”. So I understand the they want to release the 2.0 when it is stable. However it will be worth to release some beta to start seeing its capabilities

  13. h3n says:

    beef, beef, beef!
    max 2 more days to wait. *happy*
    hope waiting was worth it. but that’s not so important. the main thing is, in a few days i can try it out and decide on my own if it is stable enough (for my small-scale usage) :-)
    greetings to and from the community…
    h3n

  14. fractured says:

    Will beef turn into pork sausage? Where the beef…svn anyone?

  15. h3n says:

    reading article (update) will help. svn: this week. announcement made: this week. announcement what and where to find will follow: self-evident.

    i think we can expect another blog post until monday. probably the programmers have given it a second thought when they decided to – again – announce a definite date :-)

  16. fractured says:

    I too play the delay game from time to time. Delay for one reason or another. I delay mostly when I can get something to work right and never ask for help.

    If something is broken bad. I have to delay delay delay. I Hope nothing is broken bad.

  17. Ragax3r says:

    Wait wait wait… did you just updated the post and told us that it is going to be released TOMOROW??? Well, I actualy dont believe it anymore.. at least thats what I make myself think to not get dissapointed so hard again :D .

    Keep up the hard, but resulting, work. Everybody related in any way to the eyeOS projects, tyverymuch for making this all possible.

  18. fractured says:

    Well it is saturday now. End of week SVN has not happened. I am going over to the source forge fork battle cat set up. I really hate to leave the eyeos hear. I am very active under a alias.

    I know the internal issues with the team very well. I personally made a promise to myself that if the MASTER LEADERS missed the end of week PROMISE that this project was destined to die in the future anyway. The money from the government and other support contracts will dry out with the budget problems the spanish government is having…so it is only a matter of time. Late saturday and no SVN. The new week starts in 24 hours and the Source is still being hidden.

    I will devote my time on the fork a few are setting up. The GUI for 2.0 is a pain to work with anyway. A re-work is needed.

    See you all at the fork. I have seen many open source programs die this way! Somethings never change.

    Fractured out.

  19. fractured says:

    eyeos minus on cry baby.

  20. depited says:

    @fractured
    i’m hope you’re wrong
    otherwise is a very sad day…

  21. Silencer says:

    @fractured
    Please calm down. The eyeOS Team will decide themselves when and in whatever state to release _their_ “baby” . I also don’t know why they still make announcements they cannot stick to, but it’s up to them.

    @devs
    As you can see some guys are starting crazy theories, so please give us at least some information what’s goin’ on. Did you run into any difficulties? Is there any code rewrite to be done? What is it with the IBM/Telefonica deals (extend of cooperation)?

  22. Z@@m says:

    I just don’t understand why some spoiled kids are so eager that they can’t wait until the work is properly done … unless they need it to make money with it, I mean make THEIR money with the work of others … And then, they will find the devs “disgusting” …
    Our merchandized society has gone mad, as you may well see …
    Let’s thank the devs for the HUGE work involved in those kind of projects.
    Re-learn to … wait !

  23. theproducer says:

    Please, cut it with the “evil capitalist society” BS.

    Its simple. They announce a date for something. The date comes and goes. They announce another one. It comes and goes. I don’t know about you, but I actually (or used to…) trust the announcements.

    THAT is the problem here (at least for me). As I said in the other post, I think it’s likely that we wont see anything until mid-February at least.

    If we need to “wait until the work is properly done”, then they should come out and say it: “Hello, EyeOS 2.0 is no where near being ready. A release date will be determined at a later date. Stay tuned to the website for updates.”, instead of coming up with arbitrary dates that they know they wont make.

  24. fractured says:

    Hey, I am only going off the words and promise of the team. This is not about anything but living up to the promise of doing what you say and nothing else. If I told my boss, I would have his car fix on friday….and it was not, that is not only rude but unprofessional.

    As a organization, eyeos will not be able to have credibility in the opensource market, the support market, the community……doing this.

    If I was IBM hiring eyeos to complete a support, install, modification contract and they kept telling me next week – next week – next week…..and never deliver up to now; IBM would never hire eyeos again!

    Not only does this show imature engineers, it shows a MAJOR problem with the core leaders of the group.

  25. fractured says:

    This is not about making money. I never made a dime off of eyeos. This is about education. eyeos is free and I make it free. I do not charge for support. You can if you want. eyeos team in making money right now on the product. Which is fine but I got a school of 900 kids waiting for it since I pulled servers and readied them for the fresh install of 2.0.

    The educational promise and enhancement of 900 kids is being delayed from broken promise and my work is 3 xs more because of the lies.

    liesOS That should be the name. liesOS liesOS

  26. liesOS says:

    When will They decide to stop lieing to the community and there customers?

  27. ragax3r says:

    Sorry guys, but I have lost faith in you. I am very dissapointed. I won’t check back within a week I think, I put to much time and effort in developing my own system already I guess. I still have a little hope but… well… let’s put some emphasis on the word ‘little’.

    Regs Hans

  28. Mr. Nice says:

    Customers always determine the value of a product or service and if a company does not acknowledge this key point, then they are more than likely to become a commercial failure. I see some people attempting to use the monetary argument to justify why the other customers should not express their concerns, but money is the not key determinate of wanting a product. The pricing point of a product only sets the level of customer accessibility, and noting more. Especially in this case, since apparently the common rebuttal to the monetary argument is the expressed willingness to pay for the product. Hence, the real issue is not a matter of free or not, the real issues are the concerns of the customers.

    The key point of my statement is customers determine the value of a product or service where as the business does not. Essentially, the customer is the boss, since the sole purpose of a company is to profit from the service they provide. From my observation of the postings on this site, it seems that people are not expressing impatience’s, but instead frustration for not knowing the reason for the delays. Also, it seems the delayed responses from the PR team of eyeOS caused this voice to strengthen. These actions imply that the reactions from the customer based was driven by a combination of two influences; 1) their originally expectation was not met, and 2) the lack of clear communication that caused this delay. As a business man, I understand the importance of delivering a quality product, but what is more important is how you manage your customer relationships by allowing their voice to drive the value development of your product and if you are not careful, then your customers will fire you.

    eyeOS team it has been clearly stated in these postings that your customers are very forgiving for potential bugs within eyeOS 2.0, but more importantly is their expressed willingness to help smooth out your code. It seems this dialog is not happening, and thus further influencing the trust decay of your brand. eyeOS team please take care of your customers before it is too late, because it seems some of them are starting to fire you and it would be a shame to see your idea become a commercial failure. Remember IBM is working with you not for free, their profit motive is directed towards competing against google directly with your cloud computing framework. If you lose your brand quality, then you become less valuable and your business partnerships will decay. I personally believe in your product and I think it is a wonderful platform, but just manage your customer relationships better.

    Cheers!

  29. fractured says:

    HOLLY COW! I ssssseeeeee someone has got it right! I talked to the IBM team Friday via email and they are not too happy.

    They want to use the open source community to advance the source code much faster to compete – well not compete but to sell more servers fully integrated with open source solution to corps. The problem is this activity is 18 months to 3 years out!

    IBM wants a community to drive the development in similar ways redhat does with fedora.

    All this a side. IBM now knows this team is not up to the challenge of REAL WORLD software DESIGN.

    1. What development cycle are they using?
    2. Test in quality is the driver
    3. Where as build in quality is not
    4. Release candidates are abscure and if you run doxygen on the files the diffs are not documented at all!
    5. Poor Poor community management.

    I do know that eyeOS was forked 3 days ago and a best of breed solution with thin client (netbook – iPOD – iPAD) focus is being figured with a APP store! APP’s drive adoption – look at iPHONE. The group is in silicon valley and will make announcement AGPL and Fork from 1.9 – they are opening it up to Stanford Uni.

    That is what damage has been done already.

  30. fractured says:

    I prefer Google Code because its faster.

    I agree, it will be a couple of months before eyeOs 2.0 is production ready.

    The ability for users to help out in the development, and provide feedback more easily would be nice.

    Posted in the Forum for those of you whom are interested.

    http://forums.eyeos.org/index.php/topic,5381.0.html

    “I don’t see why eyeOs 2.0 uses an index.php “proxy” for media files. How come media files, etc… were not separated from the user data directory, so that the user data can be placed anywhere, instead of having to use the eyeOsxxxxxxx folder? Using index.php for “proxy” is slow! Nginx can serve static files at 7000-8000 req/s (provided you have enough bandwith available to support that), but when used with php, the number goes down to about 500-800 req/s.”

    eyeOS will not be out until Easter! If your lucky!

  31. h3n says:

    Vaporware?

  32. fractured says:

    @ this point it is VAPORWARE and something STINKY!~

  33. Chris says:

    At this point we can only wait. Information is slim to none, and with the attention that eyeos is getting you would think that we would be more informed. Oh well, there are not alot of good altenitives to eyeos so I can’t really switch systems. I’ve given up on believing what they say. I’ll believe it when I see somehing. There’s no sign of movement or progression or anything. Hopefully we’ll see something before Summer. I’m not trying to be rude, but eyeos team, if you want people to stop complaining, just inform us of what’s going on.

  34. huno says:

    actually it’s a big joke right?

  35. mistermartin75 says:

    I’m interested in where the SVN link will be posted…?

  36. Silencer says:

    On Friday Pau Garcia-Milà from eyeOS commented on the previous post:
    “Just a few more tweaks on the code and headers (NOT to add any big company copyright, please stop flaming on that!) and we’ll release the new public SVN”

  37. Alex says:

    @Silencer

    This “update” is three weeks old now…

  38. FSX says:

    @fractured

    It’s only a month. One month does not vaporware make.
    Plus, we know that there is functioning code. Generally, with vaporware, years go by without any evidence of anything working.

  39. fractured says:

    The American Play annie has a saying – “Tomorrow Tomorrow your always a DAY AWAY!”

    Meaning that Tomorrow you can never be in tomorrow.

    @ FSX You obviously have never released software. Communicating your release and making the release date are key to survival!

    Since the eyeos team are engineers, they should be able to properly estimate time of release. That is very simple. Lines of code estimated in product – total man hours * avergage lines per man. Then you can take any numerous factors and build a alpha release date with out code bug fix.

    This estimation method has three steps:

    Design the System.
    Estimate each Part of the System.
    Schedule the Work.
    The outputs are:

    A project schedule with allowances for schedule risk, internal dependencies and known outages.
    A list of other assumptions made during the estimation.
    A list of the project’s external dependencies.
    A list of other risks to the project schedule.
    The inputs are such documents as are available, including:

    The statement of project scope.
    User requirements – use cases, functional specs.
    Technical requirements.

    The documents in this process have never been released. Probally have never been made.

    The team need to adopt a rapid prototype model of development as alpha release of code. Then re-use as much code as possible with a waterfall model of design that starts with Beta release. As the alpha is being tested by the community design in quality to the waterfall development process with the bug fixes of the rapid prototype model.

    I design major software releases in both Europe and USA. My last work had 190 million plus lines of code. This team would of been fired Jan 1st and replaced! Well they would of actually been fired a long time ago because code walk throughs would of shown months before they would not make the delivery date. Maybe that is why there is no communication huh? They fired themselves.

  40. fractured says:

    Easter Bunny to deliver LiesOS to each of our homes! Do you believe in the Easter Bunny>?

  41. Peter says:

    I read the letter in the Update section, and I take my words back, and sorry for the rude thing ;) I was a bit angry that I can’t access my homework, I’ll continue using EyeOS!

    Regards,
    Peter Willemsen

  42. fractured says:

    Now I can play. Babies want to play. Wahhhhhh wahhhhh…now little babies are happy…..LET US HELP U FIX IT>

  43. Z@@m says:

    Once again, complain, complain, that’s all you can do !
    If you’re that eager, do as Fractured says, stick to Google code (it’s faster, or so he says …).
    As to your 900 pupils, that’s certainly bad but, hopefully (unless you’re really dumb), that’ll teach you one thing : “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” !!!
    You should’ve stuck to 1.9…
    But, faster … always faster … right now !!! I want it now, Mum !!!

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